Robert’s Interview Transcript

Loved Ones of People Incarcerated – Impacts of LWOP Interview Guide

Please share only what you feel comfortable sharing. You are welcome to skip any questions, change them, or add your own reflections. Your voice, experiences, and stories are central to the mission of the Hope Act.

We believe in honoring the humanity, resilience, and complexity of everyone affected by long-term sentences. Whether you are currently incarcerated, formerly incarcerated, a loved one, or someone who has worked closely with people serving a life sentence or life without parole, we welcome your reflections.

Experiences of Incarceration and Family Separation 

  • Can you tell me a little about yourself and your connection to someone inside/outside?

My name is Robert, I’m 22, and I’m currently in college for an AS in Computer Networking. I am diagnosed with autism, inattentive ADHD, OCD, depression, and ODD. My father has been incarcerated for as long as I can remember. We used to meet more often when I was a kid but at a certain point it tapered off due to circumstances outside of my control, and he became a blurry memory until I was made privy again to the situation in 5th grade. He always wanted to connect with me though over that entire time, my grandma kept a collection of letters he sent to me over the years to give me when I was 18, and she stayed in constant contact with him. He kept a diary for years that he finally gave to me not too long ago, that he had been writing in basically since I was a toddler- to give me his uncensored perspective on things. We connected and faded multiple times over the years (mainly due to me being avoidant of the situation along with other external factors) but ever since like 2021 we’ve been consistent.

  • What stands out about them as a person?

His charisma, well-roundedness, and conviction. He can control rooms of all types, from a room of gangbangers to a room of graduates, while not sacrificing or compromising on himself or any of his values in the process. He stands for things even when those things are typically looked down upon by the culture he was raised in. With time these things typically end up catching on, having a progressive result on groups of people who otherwise may have been set in their ways. With that said though, he is always open-minded if your argument is a good one.

  • How have they impacted your life or perspective?

He’s impacted my perspective by giving me an alternative/wider lens of what I’m allowed to be as a black man. He stands on progressive values while still maintaining his status and respect in those circles, which gives me the comfort or reassurance I need to break free from certain generational curses without feeling like a lame for doing so.

  • What would you want people to know about them?

That his humanity and mentality can’t be minimized down to his incarceration or past. I feel like it’s easy for people to put him in a certain box because those things are what stand out the most, but that box is not fitting for him at all. It doesn’t fit because it invalidates the metamorphosis he has put himself through in order to transcend the prison he lives in. He has grown so much as a person, and every time I’ve seen somebody new hear him speak, they were caught off guard because they were perhaps expecting him to fit a certain stereotype of what a black incarcerated man looks like in their head. But the reality is he has transcended that, with the accolades, the respect, and the mindset to prove it. He doesn’t let those walls define him, he is bubbly and optimistic with a constant stream of super ambitious thoughts that are always bigger than himself and the facility that merely cages his physical form.

  • How/Do you stay connected to your loved one? (sustain hope across that distance)

We stay connected over phone calls, visits, JPay, and his partner who is very involved. My household dynamic is a bit disjointed, but for my girlfriend who grew up in a very tight family, she tells me she feels closer to my dad and his girlfriend than the people I live with. This is purely because of my dad and his partners commitment to doing everything they can to connect with us. We have dinners with him on the phone, and sometimes you forget he isn’t there with you until a notification cuts everyone off mid laugh, reminding that there’s only 1 minute of the call remaining.

  • What kinds of support or care networks have helped you most?

Knowledge. I read books and took advantage of similar resources to slowly become proficient in psychology/emotional intelligence, which in turn basically let me give myself therapy and turn my life around. During that period I wasn’t talking to him because it was a long tine ago when I was still avoidant of the situation, but once I started coming to him for help instead of relying on myself I had a sad thought. “Maybe I wouldn’t have had to suffer through all that if I talked to him.” I had this thought because I kind of see him as a future version of me due to the many uncanny similarities we have, so I couldn’t help but feel as if I unnecessarily put myself through so much, when he already went through enough for the both of us.

  • What do you wish p eople outside understood about life inside (or about having someone inside)?

It’s definitely not as bad as death, but in those moments where invisible/social barriers keep you from embracing physically in the way you desire, or when pockets of deep connection are vandalized by reminders that you must wake up from the fantasy of the present moment- you can’t help but feel as if being teased with a taste of what you can’t have might hurt more than not having it at all.

  • What moments or practices help you feel most grounded? (in this space)

Stillness, living life and naturally witnessing/internalizing other dynamics outside my own.

Impacts

  • How has your loved one’s incarceration affected your life?

I had to grow up without a true father figure or stable role model. Due to this, I had so much I had to work through or figure out on my own. I had to find my own confidence/self-love, I had to find my own image of what it means to be a man, I had to find out how to cope with my abnormally large emotions on my own, how to be compatible with society as a neuro-divergent black man and so much more. All things I believe I wouldn’t have had to struggle so much doing on my own if I had my father.

  • How would your loved one’s release impact you and your family (socially, financially, emotionally)?

Something that’s always just been a far off daydream or fantasy would become reality- almost impossible to comprehend. I guess things would change a lot, I’d have a tangible father, one to introduce or be able to refer to in person, one to share physical memories with, an added pillar to my currently small support system to be able to rely on. Our dynamic has been something I’ve had internalized into my identity from a young age, and it would change my reality as I know it since it’s been like that for so long- but I think after I got used to it I would be able to proudly say I have a present father for the first time in my life (Though he is present in all the ways he can be, I’m aware the degree he could be present would be substantially increased).

  • What is the hardest part of having a loved one incarcerated?

Knowing the untapped potential of your relationship. Seeing that there’s so much love sitting in plain sight but just out of reach.

  • How do you find hope for your loved one while they’re incarcerated?

My father is very much an embodiment of his own hope and optimism as I previously said, I guess I just take comfort in knowing that as long as he stays optimistic he’ll be good. His hope is my hope.

  • What does hope mean to you?

Humanity, a catalyst, and a reason to wake up and seize the day. Without hope or optimism is there truly a purpose to life? If we just accepted our circumstances as they were and lived completely caged to the present, what separates us as humans from any other lifeforms other than being sapient? Could we really even be considered sapient if a form of hope is the catalyst for a near infinite range of things conducive to the human experience we know, such as creativity, innovation, activism, action, optimism, faith, problem-solving, life and many more- yet we didn’t take advantage of it?

About the Hope Act:

  • What does the Hope Act mean to you personally?

A beacon to make a far off fairytale into a reality. Something tangible to represent humanities capacity for growth and evolution. Something to have faith in.

  • What keeps you committed to this work?

Hope.

  • How do you imagine the Hope Act could impact the people you’ve worked with, or their families?

I believe the Hope Act could have the power to heal, damage may have been done but it doesn’t need to stay that way. Families could be repaired, broken hearts could be directly mended, deep-seated trauma could be confronted, the values of accountability and growth could be reinforced. Why let the negativity/damage of the past live forever, when both the tools and desire to heal it are present right now?

  • What kind of futures do you envision if the Hope Act were passed?

A future where rehabilitation is valued over permanent punishment, and the humans capacity to grow is recognized- rather than caging people to a past that might not even represent anything conducive to their character anymore.

  • What stories or lessons do you think the public most needs to hear about people serving life sentences?

The ones where you introduce people to the incarcerated individual and afterward they tell you how they can’t ever see that person doing what got them there in any universe.

  • What would healing look like: for yourself, your community, or those you work with?

Healing for myself currently would probably look like opening up more. To the world, to my loved ones- and no matter how close I am to my father, I believe a small part of me is still not entirely open to him because that’d mean I’d be further exposed to the pain of our current circumstances. 

For my father healing might look like mending relationships that have been damaged due to his past actions, not even limited to ones that only consider him- but ones between his kids. We’re all separate from each other, I think he’d want to take accountability and bring us all closer, want us to get more familiar with his own siblings and cousins.

When I started writing this I was unsure, but as I continue I can more confidently say that I believe healing for him and us would look like him taking accountability for the past that doesn’t define him anymore, and making active efforts to bring us all together- giving us what we should‘ve had and what everyone should have: Unconditional love, family.

Dreaming Abolitionist Futures 

  • When you think about freedom, what comes to mind?

A vision of being able to be myself with no external pressure or judgement, and an infinite opportunity to bring anything I hope for into reality. A privilege that I think would be beautiful we all had by default. A privilege maybe we should all have by default.

  • What would your community look like if prisons or borders were no longer needed?

In the world where prisons weren’t needed and all the invisible borders faded, I see a constant celebration of life. All types of cultures and demographics freely mingling amongst each other, sharing the same resources. Sharing the same love. Living in that vision of freedom I just mentioned.

  • How do art, memory, or storytelling help you imagine a different future?

They help me take all my scattered emotions/thoughts/perspectives and fully process them, observe their relationship with each other or any patterns, and then channel them all into a culmination or mural of how I truly feel as a whole. I use this as context to help build the foundation of my beliefs off of. I approach other art through the same lens, picking up anything I resonate with from it and internalizing it as if it were my own.

  • Are there traditions, ancestors, or teachings that guide how you think about justice or belonging?

Kind of a mixture of ones that happen to resonate, rather than ones I strictly abide by (to my knowledge)- so I’ll just say I believe justice should be enacted on the person who committed the wrongdoing. But if they recognize their wrongs, take accountability, do whatever they can to make it right, and that person who committed the wrongdoing no longer exists as they’ve become someone anew, then I believe justice has been served. If that person who committed the wrong doesn’t exist then who are you punishing and for what reason/gain?

  • What gives you hope for the generations to come?

The tools at disposal, knowledge is much more easier to come by and I believe the collective conscious will progress in the right direction even further as a result, despite whatever distractions may attempt to get in the way along the path.

Closing 

  • Is there anything we didn’t cover that feels important to share?

Nothing is purely black or white. My father ‘did’ wrong, but he was conditioned to behave that way from birth and circumstances outside his control. The man he’s fought to become, despite there seemingly being no real intention to considering his life sentence, wouldn’t ‘do’ that wrong in any universe now. 

  • Are there stories, poems, or creative works you’d like to include in this project?

I’m a nerd so I guess creative works that come to mind and resonate would be The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, Dante’s Divine Comedy, Mr. Morale & The Big Steppers, Vinland Saga, and the God of War series.

  • How can this research or collaboration be most useful to you and your community?

Perhaps open eyes a bit more to nuance and the human’s capacity for growth.